Teaching Creationism in our Public Schools

Steve KinsmanStarred Page By Steve Kinsman, 21st Apr 2013 | Follow this author | RSS Feed
Posted in Wikinut>News>Education

In some public schools in America, there is no longer any such thing as separation of church and state.

"Because the Bible tells me so"

If you live in certain jurisdictions in Texas, Louisiana or Kansas, your child may be learning that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that humans and dinosaurs co-mingled together on our planet. School boards in some areas have instituted educational programs that mandate the teaching of creationism above evolution, or as a theory equal to evolution in merit.

The United States of Theocracy

There are places in this country where fundamentalist beliefs are so ingrained in the collective psyche of the population that those beliefs find their way into official educational policy. The result is, of course, that young people in these areas stand little chance of breaking through and liberating themselves from the collective ignorance within their environment.

The "exam" above is taken by fourth graders in rural Louisiana. This is what passes for education in many parts of America.

Preview image from photobucket.com
Exam photo from democraticunderground.com

Tags

Creationism, Education, Evolution, Public Education, Public Schools, Steve Kinsman

Meet the author

author avatar Steve Kinsman
I live in California with my wife Carol, where I have been practicing professional astrology for 35 years. I write articles on astrology, but I enjoy writing on a variety of other subjects as well..

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author avatar Ronald Jones
21st Apr 2013 (#)

I'm not sure where you got this photo, but this could be a private school, or maybe a 4th grade Sunday School. Also, Creationism doesn't fly in the face of science, it is a belief, just like evolution. Remember, there's a big difference between observational science (ie. evolutionary biology, archaeology) and applied science, ie.(math and medicine, engineering.)

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
21st Apr 2013 (#)

Creationism certainly does fly in the face of science. Is it possible that any rational, thinking individual could believe the earth is 6000 years old? I don't think so.

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author avatar Stella Mitchell
21st Apr 2013 (#)

Steve I don't wish to be controversial , but ....we are told in the Bible that a day is as a thousand years to the Lord , so when it says God Created the earth and all in it in six days this could have meant 6000 years , and we don't know how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden before they took the fateful bite , from whence they were sent forth into the world as we know it . This could also have been in thousands of our earth years , but whichever case our calender is BC and AD before Christ and after His birth , death and resurrection . All else we will have to wait till we get to heaven , and ask God to tell us the answers . I believe He will , just as I believe the Ark is in a glacier up a mountain called Ararat somewhere waiting to be revealed . Such is my child like faith . If God says it then that's good enough for me .
God bless you
Stella

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
21st Apr 2013 (#)

You are not being controversial Stella - you are acting out of your faith. God bless you too.

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author avatar Ronald Jones
21st Apr 2013 (#)

I too, am acting out of my faith. Steve, other than the fact you've been taught and told it over and over all your life, what proof do you have the earth is older than what a creationist says? I would guess, no more proof than I have for my beliefs. Evolution is a faith, it has never been proven scientifically, other than by speculation, or in argumentative terms, appealing to the majority. It's OK to believe different things, and I imagine we'll all find out the truth soon enough.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
21st Apr 2013 (#)

Look, I know there is no way I'm going to convince anyone who takes the Bible literally, and I'm not going to try. Let me just say that from a common-sense standpoint, it is virtually inconceivable that the earth is only six thousand years old. Carbon dating, I think, proves it. Evolution is only a theory, but so is gravity only a theory, so is relativity only a theory, but those theories happen to work. The Bible, I believe, is not the word of God but the word of men. Most of it is mythic, in my opinion. And I agree it's all only a matter of opinion, so let's just agree to disagree, shall we? Thanks for commenting Ronald. I appreciate it.

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author avatar Retired
21st Apr 2013 (#)

Interesting facts Steve. :-)

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
21st Apr 2013 (#)

Thank you Staarleena.

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author avatar Ronald Jones
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

c-14 dating doesn't apply to non organic matter. There is no theory of gravity, there are specific proven laws of gravity, and relativity has been proven using formulas. Those things are science. Also, you appear to applaud other's faith, but when it goes "too far" in your view, then is my faith is not legitimate? Many things in this life are inconceivable from man's view. Btw, you never did say where that test paper picture was taken from.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)


look, Ronald, there is no use in debating. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. Let's leave it at that.

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author avatar Clarence Schreiber
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

I personally believe in creation. I also believe that it should be taught in school also to give another side of things. It should the children a chance to compare for themselves and believe which they think is right.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

I'm sorry, but the Constitution specifically spells out that church and state must be separated. The public schools are no place to be teaching religion. There is a
Hindu creation myth. There is an Islamic creation myth, a Mayan creation myth, an Incan creation myth, and a Judeo-Christian creation myth. Which do you believe should be taught in our public schools, Clarence? If I'm a Hopi Indian, and I attend a public school, are you saying I must sit there while some teacher teaches the Christian creation story?

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author avatar Carolina
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

how about cnwriter's cosmic creation!!!!that goes back 400 billion years and that is only the yuga we are in. Creation has happened over and over and just the bible's 6000 years is ludicrous!!

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author avatar Carolina
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

how about cnwriter's cosmic creation!!!!that goes back 400 billion years and that is only the yuga we are in. Creation has happened over and over and just the bible's 6000 years is ludicrous!!

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author avatar Rathnashikamani
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

There are formulas, postulates, laws and theories in science.

There is a theory as well as laws of gravity.

~Rathna

"Laws can become obsolete if they are found in contradiction with new data" (Go to the last sentence under the definition of Scientific Law: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Scientific+law)

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author avatar Clarence Schreiber
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Steve, which religion would like to say that the separation from church and state are we talking about here. The separation from church and state which means that the government can not endorse any kind of religion like Catholic, Lutheran, And YES even Evolution is a form of religion. Now explain to me which religion would you like to be separated from. If creation can not be taught in public schools neither can Evolution. Why do think the world is so messed up especially here in the United States. When God is taken out of schools things start to crumble. Look at history and things starts slowly get worse. No offense to you Steve, but please think about it. You can believe whatever that you want to believe in but let someone make a choice on what they want to believe in by giving the option instead of ramming evolution down someone's throat.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Which religion would I like to be separated from? All of them, but most especially fundamentalist Christianity, because it is so arrogant within its ignorance.

Clarence, do you see those stars in the sky? The light of the nearest star you see out there left that star eight years ago. The average star's light left millions of years ago. To believe the universe is 6000 years old is abject ignorance, and one cannot have an intelligent back and forth with ignorance.

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author avatar Clarence Schreiber
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

I must be classified to one of those you said then. Sorry, to bother then.

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author avatar Jojay
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Steve, you're a breath of fresh air! You're not afraid to speak your mind regarding your beliefs. (Or lack of them) I enjoyed your article, and believe me, I've experienced that you're writing about. I come from a small town where many people were fundamentalist in their beliefs, and in the little church that I attended (until I was in high school and started to think for myself) these individuals took it upon themselves to pass judgement on anyone who did not think as they did.

My high school teacher was almost 'fired' because he said that the earth was considerably older than 6000 years. Not to mention the fact that he taught evolution. He was a science teacher for goodness sakes! Yes, I too agree that "Christianity can be arrogant in its ignorance." If fundamentalist Christians were more open (and tolerant) to people who did not believe as they do, I would not feel as I do. But unfortunately (in my experience) this has not been the case. I've run into far too many 'it's true because the Bible says it's so' types to feel otherwise.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

What you write, Jojay, you could very well be writing about my own experience. Glad to hear from someone who thinks for herself and does not blindly accept what others spoon feed her.

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author avatar Sivaramakrishnan A
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Thanks Steve again for speaking your mind. Let the children be encouraged to have a spirit of inquiry. I studied in government, Christian and Muslim institutions and I like to understand all beliefs with a spirit of inquiry. As far as I know, no one has seen God so let us leave it at that. However we should not block the inquisitiveness of children through handed down beliefs - siva

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

It's o.k. to hand down our beliefs, but it is not o.k. to tell ouir children to believe the way we do. We must encourage them to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions. Than you Siva.

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author avatar Stella Mitchell
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Dear Steve . I believe that intelligent human beings need to be given options so as to make their choices , and as you believe in God's wonderful creation of the stars , as do I , may I be so bold as to recommend an interesting video , called INDESCRIBABLE by LOIU GIGGLIO. it is made up of five thumbnail clips , and they are very amazing to watch and listen to . ..and can be accessed through U tube or Google.
Bless you my friend
Stella >I<

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Thank you Stella. I will check out the video.

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author avatar C.D. Moore
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

So, dinasours lived 6,000 years ago, amazing! LOL

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

No, C. D., they lived here LESS than 6,000 years ago, because the world was first made then. It seems that Ronald and Clarence are a little upset with me that I don't believe that.

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author avatar Ronald Jones
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

Why do you assume I'm upset? Because I don't agree with you about something? This is a discussion forum. Actually I never even said what I believed, I am just saying taking evolution at its word takes just as much faith as anything else. I wasn't saying Christian beliefs need to be taught in school, but a teacher taking two minutes to mention there are alternative beliefs to the theory of evolution, such as Intelligent design wouldn't offend or indoctrinate anyone. Btw, where did you get that photo of the test in your post?

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

I was wrong to assume you were upset, Ronald, and for that I apologize. At the bottom of my article I sourced the photo as coming from democraticunderground.com.

I think a teacher taking two minutes to say there is an alternate theory - creationism - is teaching religion, while teaching evolution is teaching science. It would offend millions of us who believe mightily in the separation of church and state.

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author avatar cnwriter..carolina
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

love the stir up here!! them against you, them for you...how exciting.. God must be up there laughing His head off!

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

She probably is.

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author avatar Stella Mitchell
22nd Apr 2013 (#)

It is when He stops laughing that we need to be concerned about , as no matter what He will have the last laugh , and the last say , whether we believe that or not , but it will determine where we spend eternity . I know who's side I want to be on , and I want on my side when the curtain closes and it's just God and me . It will be too late to change our minds then .
Bless you all
Stella

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

Thank you Stella.

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author avatar Clarence Schreiber
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

I am not upset either Steve, I do realize had we have different beliefs. I am trying to tell you is that teach them both and let other draw their own conclusions. But when you said and I quote you " All of them, but most especially fundamentalist Christianity, because it is so arrogant within its ignorance. " That can be same said for those who do not believe in creation. I am just saying. Like I said I am not upset with you but I wish you would of phased what you said differently.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

Sorry about that Clarence. I apologize. Teach them both? No way. Creationism is religion, Evolution is science. The Constitution makes separation of church and state crystal clear. Teaching creationism is teaching religion. Case closed. Thanks for commenting.

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author avatar Ronald Jones
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

The Constitution does not speak of separation of church and state. It was a supreme court decision that mentions that. Mentioning an Intelligent design theory for a brief moment does not endorse any one one religion. If that would offend millions, then there's some deeper spiritual matter going than just a legal issue.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

Creationism does indeed endorse religion - fundamentalist Christianity. That offends millions, and if some think that that reflects some deeper spiritual matter going on, that's just some people's opinion, not fact. Why would any public school mention creationism (I rtefuse to call it intelligent design, because there's nothing intelligent about it) even for a brief moment, since it is a belief held by fundamentalist Christians, and has nothing to do with science or fact?

Can we call an end to this conversation now? I'm sure we are beginning to bore people.

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author avatar Ronald Jones
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

I will say no more, except that posting stuff like this brings on debate. I guess the only people it's OK to offend anymore are Christians.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

Gladly I give you the last word Ronald. Sorry if you feel offended.

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author avatar Kingwell
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

There is much that is good in the Bible but I could never take it literally. It is ridiculous to teach creationism in schools.

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
23rd Apr 2013 (#)

Agreed. Thanks for commenting Kingwell.

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author avatar Stella Mitchell
24th Apr 2013 (#)

I am really glad God created me , because I am fearfully and wonderfully made , as are you dear Steve .
God bless you
Stella

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author avatar Steve Kinsman
25th Apr 2013 (#)

Thank you Stella. I appreciate that.

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author avatar Retired
28th Apr 2013 (#)

Wow, interesting debate.

Thank God, in the Muslim
culture, there's no separation
between Science & Religion.

Neither do we worry about
separating faith from the
state. In fact, Islamic spain
produced great scientists who
were also spiritual leaders
during those golden years of
religious tolerance.

When Islamic science was
taken out of madrasas (in
the later period with the
spread of fundamentalism),
which only teach religion,
that's when rigid literal
interpretation of the faith
started to grow.

Muslims accept the Creation
theory as fact and believe in
the partial theory of evolution.
We do believe in hybrid and
cross-breeding as part of the
evolution theory but surely
regard apes as apes and they
have never evolved to become men. Muslims believe God
also created jinns. Do all
scientists believe jinns exist?
Do they only believe in aliens?

Still only The Wise knows the
whole truth. Anyway "Life is
a continuous struggle between
truth and falsehood. The
perception of truth is
unfortunately very subjective."

Hence, the debate continues.
http://nut.bz/16ps8yr2/

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